E84: Trusting Your Intuition in PR and Business Growth with Carrie Eddins

In this uplifting and wisdom-filled episode, Emma is joined by Carrie Eddins, a self-taught holistic PR expert known for her intuitive approach to media visibility. Carrie shares how trusting her instincts has helped her clients land major TV and radio appearances, from BBC Breakfast to national newspapers. all without following traditional PR “rules.”

Carrie dives deep into the power of intuition, explaining why it’s the best business sat nav you can have, and how fear and perfectionism often hold entrepreneurs back from showing up in the media.

The conversation covers how to approach PR with heart and strategy, how to use B2B and trade media as powerful visibility tools, and how to build resilience when putting yourself out there publicly.

This is a must-listen episode for entrepreneurs, authors, and coaches ready to step into the spotlight authentically and grow their business through soulful PR.

Key Takeaways

1. Intuition beats logic - your gut is often the best guide in PR and business decisions.
2. You don’t need to be “perfect” to be seen in the media - authenticity connects more deeply.
3. Safety and mindset matter - feeling safe to share your story helps you communicate with confidence.
4. Don’t read the comments! - protect your energy and focus on your mission.
5. B2B and trade press are goldmines - niche publications often deliver stronger leads than mainstream media.
6. Talk from the scar, not the wound - share stories that have healed to create impact without re-traumatising yourself.
7. Your book is an evergreen PR tool - tie it into current news or themes to keep it relevant long after launch.
8. Everyone starts somewhere - if someone else can do it, so can you.

Connect with Carrie here:

www.theblondepreneur.com

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website: https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Dream Business, Dream Life. Today I'm joined by the lovely Carrie Edens. Carrie is a self-taught, holistic PR expert. She is one of the most joyous people to be around. She's fun and super knowledgeable too. Hi Carrie, thank you so much for joining me today. How are you? 

Hi Emma. Oh, I'm so delighted to be here after being, you know, been fangirling your podcast for a while. So it feels like a bit surreal to be on your podcast today. 

Super, super excited. Super, super excited. Okay, as I do, we're going to dive straight into this. But before we go and explore your growth journey, let's start by telling our listeners a little bit more about what you do now. And then we can reverse engineer it. We can look at what got you to there. So over to you. 

Oh, yeah, lovely. Thanks, Emma. So what I do now is I I work typically with like trailblazing visionary experts and entrepreneurs. They're usually female, just purely because how I work, because I work quite intuitively and some of the men, they want it to be a bit more logical. And I help these people be seen and heard in the media in a way that grows their impact, their influence and their income. 

Amazing, amazing. And you do the PR different, don't you, to other people? Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? 

Yeah, it might be good if I sort of share a story. So one of this, a sort of a story of like one of my most phenomenal results. which is when I first I've been doing this for like about 8 years. So early on in my journey in 2018, I was working with this lovely lady called Annabel Kaye. And she is a GDPR expert and an employment lawyer. And I said, I said, Annabel, this is what we're going to do. I said, clear your diary in the launch week of GDPR week in May 2018. I said, clear your diary. Just trust me. I've got a really good instinct about this. I know it's going to work. She's like, really, Kerry? And I'm like, yeah, right, please do this. And so she did. She trusted me. And on the Monday morning, I was, this is when Twitter was like a really, really big deal. This is where like about 95% of the media are on Twitter. Now obviously it's X and I'd say about like 80% of the media. So it's, 70 to 80, it depends on what a certain president says, but it's not as popular as it used to be. It's still popular, but then it was like everybody and his dog and their cat and their pig down the road were on Twitter. So I was on Twitter on Monday morning, you know, like as I was at the time, I was spending like 16 to 18 hours a day on Twitter. And I was like, poops, I saw this media request come up, hashtag journal request on Twitter, they still do it on X. And I was like, right, This is it. And it was asking for a GDPR expert. So I tweeted back, emailed, emailed, I tweeted and emailed the, sorry, DMed the producer for the BBC Radio 5 Live show. And like within minutes, she was on the radio. And I admit, I was lucky because she's a very, very articulate, coherent clearly spoken, confident, hysterical person who can translate really complex things into like humorous, interesting people, easy for people to understand kind of words, which for GDPR was a dream at the time. So she went on the radio, because most people, people were like, oh, don't get it, I don't get it. And That week, Annabelle was on BBC Radio 9 times. So it wasn't just BBC Radio 5 Live, it was BBC Radio 4, BBC Radio Wales, BBC Belfast, BBC Radio Scotland. There's a couple of others I can't remember, but there was nine different individual shows. Then she was invited whilst she was on the radio because I'd been really, really trying at that point to get her on one of my clients on TV and had the TV call me and they were like, we'd like Annabelle to come on BBC Breakfast in two days. And I was like, okay. And then they were ringing me like, we'd like her to come on BBC News. And she didn't not only go on the BBC News once, she went on twice because they actually had her back. They called her back in and they did the same with BBC Breakfast. So she was on at like 10 to say like 10 to eight and she was so good. They had her on again at 10 to 9. So she's effectively on that week, TV, BBC TV four times, the BBC Radio 9 times. Now, that was just on an instinct. I broke all the classic PR rules. I just was like, no, I'm just going to, because most PR firms had kind of, they'd done it all. They've kind of given up. And I'm just trusting my intuition and that was that's by far been my best results in terms of like wins in a week. But that that is very different to a lot of other PRs. They would have not done it like that. They would have logically planned and like planned ahead. And the another example is my client, Sally Baker, who is a senior therapist and she's a relationship, largely relationship and trauma therapist. When we started to work together, She was my first client. And I said to her, because she'd written a book, Seven Steps to Changing Your Relationship with Food, and the book about emotional eating, how to reduce, how to stop emotional eating. And her publisher at the time was kind of just getting her to talk about eating issues. And I said, Sally, if you really, really, really want to do this, we need to just look at therapizing everything. And it had no evidence to say that this was work. This was purely an instinct. six or seven or maybe eight years later, in the last 18 months, Sally has been on national TV like 28 times, national radio 25 times. That's just in the last year. She gets regularly headhunted for newspaper articles and magazines and things like that. But that was through how I was kind of orchestrating it. But intuitively, I wasn't like sitting down and creating like logical things. I was like, no, we're going to follow this. I'm going to follow that. And she She played along with me, thankfully. 

Amazing, amazing. And I think sometimes we need to trust our intuition, don't we? And I think we fight so hard sometimes to not trust it because there's no logical thing to back it up. I know when I've done something that intuitively something has just said, just do it, Emma, and see what happens, they normally turn out to be the best things, whether it's from a fun point of view, from a growth point of view, or from an enjoyment point of view, or from a connections point of view, the things where I just say, I don't know why, I just feel I need to do this, they tend to be the things that work out best for intuition. It's pretty clever, isn't it? Pretty clever. 

Yeah, it's the best Google ever, really. It's just got to learn to sit with it and listen and go. But yeah, and it's. We've all got it. It's just, it's just a muscle like going to the gym, isn't it? You just need to practice doing it. 

To learn how to do it. 

And people, it's like everybody can do it. 

Exactly. And people working with you can allow your intuition to take control, can't they? And they have to trust you, and then you can trust your intuition to be able to get them the results. And with they, wow, those, the reason, the returns clients you've just spoken through, they are results, aren't they? are absolutely amazing results. And I think it's worth pointing out that, you know, It isn't just because you put something in. I'm assuming you've been working with these people to get them to a point where when they go on the radio, when they go on the television, that they do and say the right things. 

Well, I mean, quite honestly with Annabelle, she's such a strong communicator. It wasn't really, I didn't really need to do that much. So for example, even before we were working together, this is how, this is the story, how we started to work together. I was in this mastermind with these mentors and she was one of their clients. And this is when I was literally just, I was, because at the time, I was extremely financially strapped. So I couldn't afford some of the databases because you like as professional PRs and bigger agencies, you could buy databases like for five, for three to five, 1000 pounds a year so you can get access to it. I didn't have that. So I was using Twitter as my, oh, I'm going to find this. So I was just literally looking at all these things. And because at the time I didn't, Annabel was the only person who was making sense to me about GDPR. And I still probably don't, if I'm really honest, still don't really fully understand it. 

That's all we have experts for to tell us what we need to do. 

It's still confusing to somebody like me. And one of her quotes was GDPR is a process, not a deadline. So it was just before we started to work together properly. And I kind of was like, I'm just going to tweet it out, put some hashtags in. And then I suddenly got this like message from Annabelle on Facebook. She's like, Kerry, have you like, have you contacted BBC Radio for Money Box programme for me? And I was like, no. No, And she was like, that's really weird because they just invited me to go on a panel with the information commissioner and all these people to talk about GDP. And I was like, not guilty, not guilty. And then we traced it back because I literally, I was at that point, I was tweeting like, I don't know, 100, 200, 300 times. I was just, you know, I was really doing a lot of tweeting because that was my main thing. And I traced it back and I tweeted that tweet. I didn't forgot that I was like newsjacking, I suppose, was how I sort of developed this technique of directly newsjacking on Twitter with quotes on Twitter to the media. And they just saw that tweet and they invited us straight away. And she was like, I think we need to start working together, Carrie. And I was like, all right then. But that's how it started. It was literally like, I didn't even think about it. And that was kind of how it started, which is quite interesting, isn't it, really? Because she was like, and then like before, I can't remember if it was before the BBC, so after, like the BBC loved her so much. It must have been after that. There was a few times once when she went to the Excel Centre at a like, I think it was like an accountant, account X or something. She was on the stage and the BBC contacted her and said, we're in the Radio 4 car, we're in the car park, we'd like to interview you. And like she did that. And another time, they got, when she was on the Thames in London, they were like, we're waiting for you in the car park. And she had to get off a boat to speak to them because she made so much. So I, obviously it's right person, right place, right time, but she did bring a lot because she was very articulate. I mean, I did, and Sally is articulate and she was articulate at the start, but we did, I did media train her. Annabelle was like an exception. I didn't really need to media train her. 

But that is the exception, isn't it? 

Because most people, most people, most people, they need some media training because we kind of, when we're in this, and even I need media training, we all do, because it's kind of, we forget that what we're in a level of expertise and Joe Public don't really get that. They're like, what does that mean? Oh, I'm not in that entrepreneurial world or coaching world. You know, so most people do need a bit of training. 

Absolutely, absolutely. So what got you to the point of What got you on Twitter? What got you to the point where you were like, I'm going to do PR? 

What got me to the point was that I was working with this couple, I'm just about to hiccup, excuse me, in this mastermind and I was doing like connection marketing is what I kind of called it. I was like doing little storytelling and I was I'd kind of created courses about how to storytell to women, how to communicate to women, which differently to communicate to men. And nothing was landing. It was all like really like data was leading everything. It was like, so nothing was working. And this couple said, well, why don't you do PR, Karen? And I was like, I'd always done a little bit and bobs over the years, but I've never really done it professionally. 

Yeah. 

So that kind of, and so I was like, oh, well, I might as well give it a whirl. I've got nothing else to lose, And so I just started it and then I realised that I could do it quite easily, which was a bit, it's a bit of a surprise to me because I was, I hadn't really considered it. 

Yeah, but I suppose if you haven't trained specifically to do that or to sat there and thought, you know, vision board or whatever else and thought, do you know what, I'm going to become a PR expert. Sometimes these things just Again, it's probably intuition, isn't it? It's somebody somewhere is saying, this is where we need to place you, this is where you need to be, and to follow that path. So what were you doing before that? What was your growth journey to get you to the point where you were an entrepreneur? Have you always been an entrepreneur? 

I've been an entrepreneur for 21 years, mostly. So I've had a few little bits of jobs in between, but mostly it's been, yeah, Because I've done confidence coaching with women, I've done marketing coaching, I've done healing, I've done kind of all kinds of different things really. 

Yeah, and I suppose all of those skills help you with the job you do now, don't they? Because a lot of the people you work with, yeah. 

Yeah, copywriting as well. I'm just remembering. Yeah. all kind of, it's weird, isn't it, how you look back and it all kind of goes, oh, that's why I need that bit, I need that bit, I need that bit. It all kind of blends together, doesn't it all? 

Absolutely. Whatever we do in life, whether it's in a job or in some sort of business, we learn skills, don't we? And we pick things up and all of those things are transferable to other situations, aren't they? So I think it's really important that we don't lose touch of all of the stuff that we've done before, personally. Personally, yeah, I think so. I think so. what would you say from a PR perspective? What do you think stops people from getting themselves in the media? Because some people have a fear of it, don't they? So what do you think that is? What stops people doing that? 

I mean, for me, there's a number of things because it's kind of like people don't, I think for me, the prominent thing right now is that people don't feel that they're safe to go into the media. They feel like it's more safe to post on, you know, in what we call echo chambers, whether it's in particular pods in communities on WhatsApp or their own communities or on their own e-mail list or Even now with the Facebook algorithm leak, it's much more limited, isn't it? So I think there's people don't feel safe because they just feel they're going to get trolled like a celebrity or a politician, which really most of the time they're not. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule generally, but I mean, I think it's about safety, but I feel like There's a sense, particularly with women, about when they go into the media, there's this fear that they've got to be perfect, they need to be a certain way or have their hair done or look a certain way or be a certain age or have all their ducks in a row, everything looking perfect online and everywhere. And so they keep putting it off until they've got their website sorted or they've sorted their hair out, they've lost 10 pounds. I see that a lot with women. And I just think, sometimes you've just got to do it. You know, you're never going to be fully ready in that situation. And then the other thing that I really am noticing more and more is that women say they want it, and then they're like, I've done it, you know, they've done enough, and they've got the experience enough, but they're still holding themselves back. And I think they're afraid of their own voice, they're afraid of their own power, they're afraid of the own impact, yet they really, really want it. So this is kind of disconnect. is why I created like I've created like a process an embodiment process to help them to do that to become their own kind of um like cheerleader because it's kind of like they're not backing themselves fully because they they say they want it but then they're like it's like a stop start on the um at the door you know and it's really they it's just it's It's their logical mind holding them back. 

Yeah, a lot of that stuff you just said is quite interlinked, isn't it? if you think of it, if it's like typical examples, if a hair needs doing, or, for me, I'd be like, oh, my roots need doing, or, could just do with losing a few pounds. We say that all of the time, don't we? And it really is just a, I'm going to use the word excuse, which sounds really harsh, but it's an excuse for not trusting ourselves, isn't it, and our own capabilities sometimes. And also, you know, the fear of people trolling, because that is a thing, isn't it? Whether that's in the media or online, that is a thing that does happen. But as you say, although we hear about those cases, and those cases are absolutely shocking, Most people probably don't get that on their content that gets shared in the media. Most people like Jim. 

I was on a PR panel with Fiona Harold and Joe Swan and Andrea Rainsford Shine event recently and somebody in the audience said, you know, how do I control the narrative if I go to the press? And I said, if you want to go in the press, you're going to understand you're not going to control the narrative. No, you can. And even if you did like say to the journalist, like say it was a written feature, or we want you to make sure that, you know, has certain things, you say certain things and certain things are edited out. 9 times out of 10, that is possible. It's not always possible. Some of them, the editor might say, well, actually, if they want the story, we need to do this. But then, you can't control all the comments in the Daily Mail of the Sun. You can't control how people are ever going to perceive you because you went in the particular newspaper or wherever you went. And so Again, that goes back to your relationship with yourself and trusting yourself and not what you're saying and backing yourself, no matter what the outcome of this particular piece of media coverage and no matter what people's response is, what you think of you and what you feel about you is the most important thing. Everything else is like icing on the cake. You are the cake is what I kind of say to my clients. I'm like, oh, that suits me. 

I can eat myself. How yummy. How absolutely yummy. And I think that thing that we hear people say all of the time, don't read the comments. Because people are very good at putting the nasty stuff on there, aren't they? So the chances are what you're going to see is the nasty stuff rather than the nice complimentary stuff. So it's not going to boost your ego or your confidence. It's more like likely to pull it down. So I think that statement of just don't read the comments is totally, something that is 100% worth doing. I know that when I hosted my first growth event back in October 2023, it feels like it was only yesterday, but it's a couple of years ago now, that got into the press, into the local press, because I did, I hosted my first event because it was in Becky's memory, partly because, she was always business-minded. So that went out into the press. And And it didn't go out the way that I wanted it to go out. I wanted it to be more of a celebration. And they focused a lot more on the lost side of it. But some of the comments, everybody kept saying to me, don't, this is only local press, by the way, it wasn't anything, you know, national or anything like that. Some of the comments, everybody could say, don't read the comments, don't read the comments. And some of the comments, it was just like, What is wrong with these people? I didn't, I stopped reading the comments at that point because I thought this isn't going to make me feel any better. It doesn't change the fact that, you know, what we did was... was a good thing, not to, they weren't saying the event was a negative thing, they were, it was all stupid comments about, she would never have had cancer if she hadn't had the COVID jab and all of that talk of political stuff that came in. Nobody actually asked the question if she'd had the COVID jab, but hey, we're not going to go over that. It was like literally on really silly political, silly stuff that was going on in the comments. So I think that don't read the comments is absolutely the right thing to do. It's not about not going in the press because that could happen. It's about just saying to yourself, actually, just don't read the comments. Because it's always the silly people, isn't it? 

Is. And I remember like, this is years ago, listening to like, I don't know if it was listening on a radio show or a television show, and it was like some kind of A-list celebrity was saying that like, Well, you know, I know a lot of people love me, a lot of people hate me, but the people who really matter to me, I can count on one hand. They're like, Those are people's comments I care about. The rest, it's a bonus or I discard. And I remember thinking, That's really quite clever, isn't it? And they were saying that that keeps me grounded, no matter what film or what award they win. They were saying that that is a way to keep them grounded. Now I think that's even more grounded common sense. 

Absolutely. We certainly shouldn't let other people's nastiness, unkindness stop us from doing the things that we feel intuitively or from a growth point of view are the right things for us to do for ourselves and our business. And it sounds super easy to do that, but. 

It sounds super easy, yeah. Especially when we're triggered, because I think this is the other thing. It's kind of like, if, because I just remember like this, was again probably when I was starting out and I was I did this offer to go to this media summit in New York. So I did like this crazy deal. And this one lady who was going to, we were talking about working together and she was helping women who'd been through domestic violence. And I said, oh, okay. I said, so what's your story? And she said, I didn't want to share my story. And I said, why don't you want to share your story? Because she was still in the trauma response. She still had unprocessed trauma. And I said, well, yeah, no, we don't want to share that. But the thing is, if you're going to work with something like domestic violence or domestic abuse, you're going to go and want to go to the media and talk about it. They are going to ask you your story, where's the connection? And if you don't want to offer it, which I understand why you don't, then it will lessen the impact. So I actually said it's probably not a good idea to work together because we'll only ever get so far because at some point an investigative journalist will come up and go, we really want to know why you're connected with this topic. because it will just have greater impact, Of course, yeah, If people have got unprocessed trauma about a story or even an opinion, I don't personally advocate or recommend that they go to the media about it until they've processed it and they're... Nobody's ever not triggered, but you're kind of, you're managing your triggers. 

Exactly. 

About it, it's just going to, it's going to trigger you on steroids. It will just, you know, it's salt in the wound. It's a **** ton of salt, excuse my French. 

Exactly, absolutely. And that's going to come stingy. That is going to be very stingy. Yeah, I remember Danny Wallace, I think it was saying years ago, she probably still says it now, but always saying that, you know, Going on to stages, and I suppose it's the same from a PR point of view, you should always talk from the scar, not the wound. And I think that's really important, isn't it? You know, if it's still painful, if you've still got unhealed trauma in there, or trauma that you're unable to manage properly yet, because you haven't got past definitely not the time to talk about it, is it? Because you're going to come from a different perspective, aren't you? I absolutely know you're going to, and I know that from personal experience. I've been asked a few times to, share stories from losing Becky and everything else, and I haven't done it, and I've chosen not to do it because I just know that it's still a wound, it's not a scar, and I know that it's not going to come across in the way that it would be needing to come across. I absolutely know that it would help other people, my journey and everything else would help other people, but it's not going to help people if it's too emotional. Absolutely. 

And it's kind of, this is where the, because I love Brady Brown, I've got massive respect for her. I've read quite a few of her books, but this is where the vulnerability hangover, it's like it kind of, and only you will know where there's a right thing, like you're saying, so because the vulnerability hangover is when you, like you're saying, you're sharing it and there's a wound, not a scar, and it's like, Yeah, it can help people, but first of all, is it helping you? 

No. And I think your responses are going to be different, aren't they, when you're able to talk from a logical perspective than when you're talking from an ouchie, this hurts type thing. So I think, you know, that's a big, big thing, isn't it? But I think it's also important to talk about, you know, PR, getting in the press isn't always got to be about something bad or traumatic that's happened. And I think a lot of people think that I haven't got a story that's, you know, that's strong enough, that's sad enough, that's traumatic enough to be able to get myself into the press. And I think your examples of your clients that you gave, they were both from a work expert point of view. 

Yeah, because I think for me, and there's lots of different definitions, but my simplest definition of Publicity is it's part storytelling, part opinion sharing. Now, the stories are often a much more personal in nature, like what you say, they're a bit more dramatic and everything. But the opinion sharing, everybody's got an opinion. You can share opinions about your private, you know, things in your private life or in your professional life. And for me, that's a far easier way to get started and build your profile and your authority and credibility in the media than just focusing on your personal story. And I'm not, I think both are good, but I think people underestimate their professional opinion so much. And like with that, they, what they do is that they overlook, they kind of go more for the mainstream press and they overlook the B2B or trade press, which is what I've been doing masterclasses about recently, because it's like, it's a very lucrative form of a section of the media, which is only growing. Mainstream press is reducing in nature because of budgets and AI and all kinds of stuff. The B2B press or the trade press is growing, which is where you've got like... you can go in your industry, specific industry to you or an industry that you'd like to be known for. And you can pick multiple industries, but it's just going to be a more concentrated audience and you're able to share the depth and breadth of your expertise in a way that the mainstream, you know, you want to speak like a 10 year old in the mainstream, in the B2B or trade press, you can go really geek out and deep dive into all your stuff. And also like people who are industry, industry experts, not industry experts, sorry, decision makers who are, you know, going, oh, we're going to hire that person, we're going to hire Amber. They are reading the industry press or the people who are booking people to go on for their summits or stages. They're reading who's featured in the industry press. So it's, I think people underestimate that impact as well, because they're too busy going, I want to be in, I want to be on BBC Breakfast or the bigger places or this morning or ever. And it's like, it's not either or, it's both, but just don't underestimate that section. 

The power of that. You're hitting your ideal audience. directly, aren't you? Whereas I suppose you're still hitting that through, you know, BBC News or whatever programmes you're on television or in the press or whatever it is, you're still hitting them, but diluted with people who absolutely aren't your ideal, you know, clients, they aren't your ideal audience. So you're directly hitting those people. So I think strategically it sounds like having both is a great opportunity. 

And I and often I, you know, I've heard stories from my American counterparts as well that they got into the B2B press and then they'd been like one I can't remember if it was Tanya or Tamara. Anyway, they're really amazing women. And they were saying they'd been pitching the Wall Street Journal, this journalist, this tech story. And then they got them in like, I don't know, like Manufacturer's Monthly that the Wall Street Journalist was reading. And then they were like, suddenly like, we're like, yeah, okay, we'll have the interview now. So it kind of actually can lead into the mainstream. It's just, people don't necessarily think that that's the way they always think the mainstream is the way and I just think that consider both. 

And I think the mainstream is probably because that's more what they know. from a young age, we're seeing the programmes on television, aren't we? We're seeing our parents reading the papers, then probably us reading the papers and people talking about the papers. And, you know, there won't be many people out there that won't have heard of the Times or the Telegraph or these newspapers. or BBC News or This Morning or whatever else, but there'll be a lot of people, even if they work in the industry, they won't realise that there's actually trade magazines out there that would probably get them results quicker and then could potentially lead to, as you say, results in the other way. So Carrie has masterclasses on this, so if you're listening and that is something that actually is resonating with you, do get in touch with her because it sounds like it's an untapped market. 

It's a complete untapped market. 

Yeah, absolutely. So get yourself in there. OK, I've totally lost track. We went off on a. But it's all good stuff, and I think it's important, isn't it, for people to understand, the pros and cons, because there is of everything, is there, of being in the media? Absolutely. 

I think it's really important to be aware of it, isn't it? Because it's... 

Absolutely. 

I think it's part of my job to say no to certain people if I don't know, because it's kind of, it's not, you know, so that's why I'm really... I'm cautious about certain people, because I just think that there's got to be a right fit. And you've also, it's not just that, you've got to work with people who you resonate with and they're your cup of tea. Because I'm not everybody's cup of tea and that's great because there's so many other talented, wonderful PRs out there, you know, that might be more suited. So it's, you've got to get the, once you have the right person in your corner, then it's going to work more. It's more likely to work, isn't it? Whereas. Absolutely. 

Absolutely. 

And that's not going to help you get the ROI that you were looking for. 

You've only got to look at Sally, haven't you? when you just said about all her, was it 29 TV and 25 press? I've probably got that the wrong number of news. That's a lot of numbers. That's a lot of, in a year, that's a lot of publicity. And that's because the two of you have obviously worked together for so long, but it's actually because you blend, you connect, you've got the same. 

I wanted to say sort of a really good story. So last year, so because this is a story, everybody, because it might resonate with a few, it might be useful. This is another story about Sally. So Last year she brought a book out called The Getting of Resilience from the Inside Out. And she's a regular on BBC Radio London on the Eddie Nestor show. And she's like, what's the strategy with the books, Carrie? And I was like, well, this is what I think, because everybody's got a book and they want to go on the radio and talk about the book, right? And I get it, I get it. And I said, no, let's be counterintuitive here. What would be best was that let's, you know, yeah, mention it to the producers really casually when you go on to go on next, but don't like make a big hoo-ha about it. Just play it cool, play it down. And she went on to Eddie's show. And he was like, they were doing their usual banter and then they talk about the news stories of the day, because that's the feature she goes on. And they have this like, he has quite heated debates with Sally. It's quite, it's like they're in a couple, they're having this argument. It's really funny. It's very playful and funny. And right at the end, and he said, oh, a little bird tells me you've got a book out. You'll have to come back on next week and talk about it. And I was like, boom. So she went on like the next week. And she talked about her book and he just kept mentioning her book, her book, her book, because we didn't force the agenda. And this And I think this is the thing that it's like with anything, isn't it? The less you, the more you make it a big deal, the more pressure you feel and other people feel. So if you play it a bit cooler, then, and that was, yeah. that was a really big win. So he was, he really, really mentioned it. 

Amazing. I mean, but that's what they say about things like networking, isn't it? You know, don't snog on the first date type thing. You know, the less you throw things in people's face, the more you just talk and connect, the more curious they get and want to know about you, the more they ask you. And that's when you're able to share in a way that they're ready to listen rather than just take it away. So that's an amazing, absolutely amazing, amazing win. Yeah, amazing, amazing. And I think that's the thing, isn't it? You know, it's a lot of people launch a book and they put a press release out there, don't they? Out goes a press release and that's it. Yeah. And that's a shame, isn't it? 

It's a shame because people, if you really understand how the media works, you can tie your book into media ongoingly, you could just bring it up to date and make it relevant to what's happening in the media kind of forever, really. You don't really need to update your book either. You can just tie it back in, tie it back in, tie it back in. It's just that we a bit of creative thinking, but people don't really think about that. Like you're saying, they just think, ahead of the book, I'm going to put a press release out. When the book's been launched, the press release out, oh no, it's launched, you don't need to do anything, it's not relevant, it's dead. And it's not true, because obviously there are things like the Sunday Times list and the New York Times bestseller list that, you know, I think it's the first two or three weeks of the book launch to get so many sales. And there's like certain logical, like structured plan to do that. But there's still exceptions to that rule. But generally that's what it is. So get it if that's what you're going for. But for everybody else who doesn't really want to go for those kind of milestones or markers, you can just keep tying your book back in with a bit of creative thinking. That's why I've created these PR toolkits, because it helps people do it themselves in their own time. And, you know, like news jack on the news, jump on what's happening currently to like, to the content of their book, because there's always an angle, but it's just you've got to train yourself to think like the journalist and like the media, and then you can keep tying it in because the chances are that there's going to be there's going to be something that you can share an opinion about that will come link back to your book. 

Exactly that. The book is your biggest, or can be used correctly, the biggest asset that you've got within your business content. You spend It's months, years for some people writing and putting all of your, everything that's up here in your head into words. And so many people do that and then promote it for a while and then share it occasionally and think that's it. But there's so much more you can do with it if it's used correctly. 

Yeah, I mean, I think it, like you say, it's a massive, it's a potential asset, isn't it? It's like. 

Absolutely, absolutely. know about it. 100%, 100%. There's some people out there that I know that some are people who do. really, really well in the businesses and they will all say that their book is the thing that gets them their leads. And that doesn't take anything, does it? It's out there, it's on Amazon or wherever, Waterstones or wherever you're selling your book. The book is doing the legwork for you, but you've got to do the promotion bit at the top. 

Which is why, if you marry like what we talked about earlier, like the B2B press with the book, because it's going to be industry-specific targeted industry. publication or even podcasts that they'll be like, wow, that's like, one of my clients has got a book rediscovered about midlife women. And I'm just like, there's so many midlife women podcasts and publications for just an example, you know, it's, if you go for those angles as well, I mean, that's, you just got to put the effort in, you get what you, you get in what you put out, don't you? 

Exactly, absolutely, 100%. Right, we are starting to run out of time, unfortunately. I know me and Carrie could literally talk all day. We could. We absolutely could. We absolutely could. But before we finish, at the end of every single episode, I ask my guests to share with us a top tip. So, Carrie, what's your top tip for our listeners? 

My top tip is to remember that somebody you really admire who is perhaps a bit further along in the journey that you want to, maybe has a higher media profile than you, they started somewhere and if they could do it, you can do it. 

Love that. Absolutely love that. If they can do it, you can do it. And finally, if any other listeners want to learn more about you, where's the best place for them to come and find you? 

Well. 

Do I need to roll up my sleeves for this list? 

Depending on when they listen to the podcast, it could be the blondpreneur.com or it could have shifted to moonlitpr.com. So. 

OK, so try both. Try both. 

Yeah, try both. 

Try both. Yep. I will pop obviously the link in the show notes. And once Carrie has swapped over to the updated website, she will hopefully let me know and I'll make sure just the correct link is in the show notes for you. Anyway, So Carrie, thank you so much for joining us. It has been an absolute pleasure as ever chatting. I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I have. 

I've always enjoyed chatting to you, know that. 

Absolutely, absolutely. So if anybody wants PR, go and look Carrie up. She is phenomenal at what she does. But for now, thank you for listening. We will see you next time.