E50: Mindset is not just a buzzword with Jenni Winter-Leach

Change is inevitable, but how we handle it makes all the difference. Are you resisting a transition in your life or business?

In this episode of Dream Business Dream Life, we explore how to embrace change with confidence and clarity.

You’ll learn:

✨ Why transitions feel so uncomfortable and how to reframe them
✨ A powerful mindset shift that turns uncertainty into opportunity
✨ The key habits of people who navigate change successfully
✨ Practical strategies to move through life’s transitions with ease

Who is Jenni?

Jenni Winter-Leach is a mindset coach who spent a decade helping riders overcome fear, nerves, and anxiety — all the way to Team GB level. Now, through Bold Business Mindset, she helps entrepreneurs unlock hidden mindset blocks that keep them stuck in overthinking, self-doubt, and burnout.

Jenni’s unique background working with high-pressure performance riders gives her a fresh perspective on nervous system regulation, confidence-building, and practical mindset strategies that translate directly to business success. She brings powerful, relatable insights on overcoming fear, taking bold action, and achieving sustainable growth — perfect for inspiring entrepreneurs ready to stop playing small and thrive.

Connect with Jenni:

Facebook - Bold Business Mindset

Want to connect? Find me here:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamemmahine

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-hine

Website: https://www.emmahine.co.uk

You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@EmmaHineStrategy

Transcript

Hello & welcome to Dream Business Dream Life, helping ambitious people, like you, to grow a business they love.

 I’m Emma Hine and I’m on a mission to show you that it is possible to grow a business without sacrificing your life.

 Having experienced the rollercoaster of making millions of pounds, but feeling overwhelmed, anxious, and totally unsuccessful, I know first-hand the importance of growing a business on your terms.

 On this podcast I'm going to share with you lots of tips and advice that will enable you to grow a business that gives you the financial freedom to live the life of your dreams while sharing with you some inspirational growth stories from other fabulous business owners.

 Ready to live the dream? Then let’s get stuck in…

Hello and welcome to today's episode of Dream Business, Dream Life. Today I'm joined by Jenny Winterleach. Jenny is a mindset coach who spent a decade helping riders overcome fear, nerves and anxiety, all the way to Team GB level. Now through bold business mindset, she helps entrepreneurs unlock hidden mindset blocks that keep them stuck. Hello Jenny, how are you?

Hi Emma, I'm good thank you.

 Super, right, let's do what I do every single time. Let's dive straight in, tell us who you are and tell us why you started your business.

 Great, so just to clarify on that one, riders is horse riders, not motorbikes or cycle riders. So I, well I'm in a question, which you know I'm a horse rider through and through. I popped out the womb, wanted to be around horses and no one knows why, because I'm not from a horsey background or anything like that, just needed to be around them. There was something about them that was magical that I just, I wanted to be around them. So. Um, my parents weren't horsey and eventually I pestered them into let me have riding lessons and that, and it began at age seven. So I always grew up with the belief that there was no money in horses and actually, you know, there's a lot of truth to that. Um, so I decided that I would keep them as a hobby and I would go and do the normal kind of, you know, degree corporate route and all of that. So I ended up in a corporate job, um, like you do after I'd graduated university and I excelled really, really fast in that corporate job. And I was, I was on talent lists and I was accelerating up through and at age 28, 29, I realized that it's really wasn't what I wanted to do at all. Um, and I burnt out. So at a young age I had burnout, but the stupid part was that, um, I was being told that I couldn't burn out cause it was too young. Um, young people don't do that. You know, I obviously just wasn't capable of the job, even though they knew I was, and you know, all these things that really just made it worse actually, to be honest. So. Uh, there was a turning point. At that age where I had these two passions. I loved helping people. That's what I was in HR and talent management. That's what I did. I was all about leadership development, um, coaching people, developing them through, keeping them in the company. And that was the whole idea of it, but also had this passion for horses and had ridden that entire time since I was seven. So I thought, I reckon I can combine the two. And, uh, and I'd been doing all of my qualifications and things that I needed to do to be a coach, not a riding coach, but a mindset coach. I'd always been interested in it. I started learning about it at university. Um, and I thought, you know, what now is the time I can, I can either go and get another corporate job or I can do the scariest thing ever in my life, which is launch into something brand new. So of course, me being me, I, I jumped, obviously I had a plan. I didn't just leave my job. Um, but you know, pretty quickly it became apparent that I'd always been an entrepreneur, very spirited, some say unemployable. Yeah. I think a lot of entrepreneurs are, aren't they? Absolutely. Um, so I set up Flying Changes Mindset a decade ago now, just over a decade. Um, and it was amazing. It was full of its challenges. Um, you know, one heck of a learning curve, but I grew that business and I absolutely loved helping horse riders at all levels. And then I ended up working with Team GB riders. And, um, one of them's actually just got an amazing accolade from all of our governing bodies for being an incredible, you know, part of the sport. And it just like unbelievable stuff. But what I realized was during that time, as you do, you know, you're always after your ideal client and what have you, but you always get some other sort of random bits popping up along the way. And one of the things I noticed was a lot of people were following what I was doing as a business and wanting my help from a business mindset perspective. You know, that it's, it doesn't matter whether it's to do with horses or business, it's, it's still fear, nerves, anxiety, getting in the way of yourself, you know, overthinking and self-doubting and. Procrastination, all that stuff is the same. And so I started sort of working with a few of them and I really enjoyed it because my business, I had a business background, I got a business degree, um, you know, I was obviously running one. And one of the things that I would do when I was running Flying Changes, I still am, it's still very much part of the business, but, um, was that I would go out to the wider world and see what people were doing and bring that back into my business in the equestrian industry, which is about 10 years behind, to be honest. Um, and so people thought what I was doing. Groundbreaking, but I was like, no, no, it's, it's really not, you know, this is, it's just, it's an online business. And, you know, I'm just following many other people that are my mentors or people that I'm following and doing what they do anyway. So I decided this year to take the leap and to set up a second arm to my business, which is bold business mindset. And that is for entrepreneurs and business owners who are doing well, but they're kind of feel they're stuck. Um, they may be plateaued or they're not taking their next bold business move or. They don't really know why their business isn't growing or they, you know, like they've done the initial stuff. They've taken that leap. They've, they've done that. Um, and then it's looking at how we can help them to do the next level, which is exactly what I've done with riders over the years. The only difference is we're working with a half a ton of sentient being that might not actually want to do what you want to do. Um, so I'm not saying that business hasn't got it as fears or anything like that, but you're not physically sat on top of something that could say, nope, at any moment. Um, it feels like it sometimes, doesn't it? It feels like we're, we're, you know, riding an. Controllable beast at times, but yeah. So, um, so that's how bold business mindset has come across and that's kind of my focus at the moment. Um, uh, although interesting enough, what happened with flying changes as I was working mostly with the riders to begin with, and then I decided I wanted to start training other people in what I did. So I now have a fully accredited mindset training program, the world's first equestrian mindset training program, um, fully accredited with the CBD and the ICF. And, um, so, so I'm really training up my competition. Cause it's a very small niche and I kind of realized as well that actually by training my competition, I didn't want to be poaching their potential clients or, you know, really working with the riders themselves so much anymore. Um, I really wanted to focus on creating my community of trainers, which I absolutely love. Um, and that has just been fantastic. So really the focus in the horse riding area now is training and, and, and, um, raising the bar in the standard of mindset coaching available to riders. Cause it's, it was pretty poor up until that point of what was available. Um, and then. And also now the, uh, net that freed up a little bit of time for me to be working with entrepreneurs as well, which I love.

 So that, yeah, in a nutshell, in a nutshell, in a nutshell. And it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think mindset is something that I don't think we're taught when, if you go back to, you know, like education, whether that's at school, college, university, wherever that sits, I don't think we're ever taught my, I certainly wasn't taught mindset. And I know, you know, if we go back to my first business, I know this now, but hindsight. It's a great thing, isn't it? You know, that business, what took over me completely, it was an absolute monster. I've shared that story. People know exactly what happened. And I did walk away because I thought I can't do this anymore. And now I can sit there and say, you know, a lot of that, I'm not saying all absolutely wasn't all, but a lot of that was mindset. A lot of that was what I was telling myself and, you know, and all the stuff that was going on, but I didn't see all of that, but I didn't know mindset existed. My, my world was my world. And I was in this. Bubble of, you know, what I knew and, and I was doing okay from a financial point of view, you know, the business was making money, but it wasn't giving me what I wanted. And, and that wasn't strategic because I was doing all of the strategic things because I knew how to do all of the strategic things to make the business grow. Um, I didn't know mindset existed.

 Yeah, no, you're right. And, you know, I think what's happened is we aren't taught it in schools. So when people then do start to learn about it, it just opens up. Like, you know, just the freedom, once you understand your brain and what you can do with it. But I think also it is banded around a bit too much at the moment, it's become a bit of a buzzword and there are a lot of people doing stuff that it's okay, you know, like things, there's certain things that you can do that are okay. And I don't obviously want to poopoo anyone's efforts or anything like that, but, you know, people will talk about affirmations and journaling and things like that, but that's all very symptomatic stuff. And, and really where I love to work is the much deeper stuff, the root cause. But that does scare some people off, um, as they think they're gonna have to sit in therapy, but actually it's not the case at all. Like you can really easily change your mindset on something with some tiny little tweaks and some really simple tools that can fundamentally make a really big difference in what you believe. And therefore what you do, because our beliefs shape our behaviors. Um, but like you say, actually the first place as with everything, isn't it, is being conscious of it and awareness. And, uh, and I think it's kind of good that mindset is talked about now, but. I think it's, it's also become scarily enough. One of those like buzzwords that everyone uses, hence why I was like, right. I am developing a really amazing mindset training program here to make sure that these guys who do want to help people with their mindset are doing it safely and doing it properly and doing it in a way that really helps them. Because like anything, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Um, and as you know, with a lot of things, there's a lot of stuff out there at the moment where you can go and just sort of pop and do something online and call yourself a mindset coach. And. You know, that really scares me.

 Yeah. And there's a lot of that in a lot of industries, isn't there? You know, you can, for seven pounds or whatever it is, you become a life coach. You can become a, this, you can become a, and that by no means makes you an expert, does it? Or it means that, you know, you've, you've got the tools in your toolkit that enable you to actually help and resolve people's mindset because mindset's deep, isn't it? It's, it's not surface level. The surface level stuff will be how that mindset is showing up, you know, in, in the way that you're behaving and the way that you do. You know, you're doing things because of how the mindset is and it's, and it's something you've got to really be comfortable with delving into. Hasn't it?

 Um, yes. So we, we, we liken it to an iceberg, exactly like you said. So the tip is the part that we see, which is like our behaviors and our environment that we're in and the things we do and don't do and, you know, stuff like that. And then the next kind of level is like on the waterline, which is the things that we might say to others, or we might say to ourselves, but others might not know, or, you know, that kind of side of it. But then the really deep stuff is, you know, who. Who are you as a person? What do you believe? What shaped your reality as to where you are today? What things have scared you along the way? What things have put you off? What things have you heard that you've taken on board, which actually aren't true for you or, you know, all of that stuff. And yeah, absolutely. I think there's a bit of a misconception that you have to go deep and it's hard and you're gonna spend the whole time in tears or anything like that. No, not at all. Actually. Um, yeah, we can, you know, I've done some really deep work with people and it has been utterly life-changing. It doesn't, you don't have to go that far. It's one of these. Things like dip your toe, you know, dip your toe, find out about it, find someone who's really good and just, you know, have a chat with them about it. And most of us that are really good coaches at this, we can get to the bottom of something really quickly, actually, um, whether we can then change it that quickly or depend on other, other elements. But then you kind of, you go in and most people with anything like this, they'll dip their toe. They'll find something out. They'll get intrigued by it. They'll want to know a bit more. They get a bit of a result. They kind of, they like that then. And then before they know it, they're kind of swimming in the deep. End and we're digging out a whole load of stuff. But the thing that I love about the way that I have been trained and the way that I do mindset is that we call it content free, which means it's not about sitting there and telling us about your childhood at all. That's kind of traditional talk therapy stuff. I personally think keeps you in that space. It doesn't actually change anything for you. So the way that I'm taught and the way I teach others is actually, it's all about future focused action changes. You know, what do you want? Where do you want to be? Yes. We need to sometimes dig around and undo something. I don't need to know what happened. That's the coolest part because your brain will fill in those gaps. So whenever we're doing anything, you don't even have to tell us really what you're thinking. We'll just guide you through and let the brain do its stuff. So that's where it's really cool.

 Yeah. And that's quite a different concept. What a lot of people do, isn't it? A lot of people will let's go deep, deep into, you know, into work. What's made us behave the way that we behave in a child wounds. That's something that we hear talked about a lot. And absolutely. I'm, you know, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It absolutely isn't a bad thing. But we hear a lot. That stuff bandied around. And I think that in some ways probably put some people off because they don't want to dive into that stuff. They don't want to go back over something that they know has upset them, hurt them, you know, really, you know, not made them feel good. Um, so that probably puts some people off mindset work. Doesn't it?

 it totally does. And it's really interesting. What you're saying there is it is, it is all driven by stuff in our childhood. Like it just fundamentally is sometimes it's stuff later on, but most of the time it is formed in our childhood. Um, and like you say, a lot of, a lot of the stuff that is talked about is, well, we'll take you back there and you'll relive it. And we say, one rule I've got is when, when you retell it, you relive it. And so we don't want you retelling it. We don't want you reliving it. That's not helping anything. In fact, if anything, it's reinforcing it and it's certainly, we don't want to diagnose. We don't label anything like that. What the way that I look at it is, yeah, it has been caused by that stuff. And yeah, we can change that weirdly enough. We can change it, but you don't have to go back there to change it. You, you absolutely, we can, we can change the way that your brain has perceived those events. We can change the way that it's affecting you right now without having to go back in and tell us all about it. So it's like, it's grounded in the right theory. That's exactly, it is a little in a child's womb. So that's exactly what it is. But even those words, like, do you want to go and poke about in a wound? No, you don't. If it's plastered over and you think it's okay, it's going to cause more hurt going and poking about in it. You're not going to do that. Are you? But if we can say, Hey, look, what we'll do is we'll just take the plaster off because that's what's stopping it healing right now. And what? If. If we give you a little bit of something that means it's not going to hurt and we kind of go and sort the wound out for you so it can heal. And then it's not causing you a problem anymore. You can crack on. That's kind of the way that I see it. You know, otherwise what happens is we, I talk about like a thorn. So if you've got a thorn in your arm and it's upsetting you, that's the wound, right? And then you sort of, you pad around it so that you can't knock the thorn anymore. So that's your symptomatic stuff. That's what we call our coping mechanisms are things that we do to make us okay. And then there's, then you've got this. There's a bit of padding on your arm as well. So then you go, oh, well, occasionally it still gets knocked and it still hurts. So what I'll do is I'll stick even more padding and then, and then a water wing on. And then before you know it, you can't use your left arm because there's so much stuff on it. And then you go around thinking, well, I can't use my left arm. And someone goes, oh, well, that's okay. I'll help you use your left arm if you want to. And I'm like, well, that's the symptomatic stuff. You know, it's not about whether or not you can use your left arm. That's not actually the issue. The issue is the fact you've got a thorn in it. So what we do is we come along and we go, right, hang on a minute. We can get rid of that thorn, but we're not going to hurt you anymore. So actually it's really good because then what could you do when you can use your left arm? Like, what are the possibilities? What do you want to be able to do with your left arm? And that's kind of, that's how I see mindset. And that's how I see, you know, and I've been there and I've been through it myself, particularly in business, is that you'll do something. I mean, I've done this. I've done challenges and launches that have been incredible and fantastic. And then I've done another one. It's fallen flat on its face and it's hurt and it's hurt financially. And then you've put a lot of energy and effort in. And it's like, oh, I don't want to do that again. Like, that hurts. There's my thorn. It's in there. And it's like, well, actually, it's not about doing it differently or what have you. It's actually about overcoming the fact that for whatever reason it hurt, like mentally and emotionally. And we'll sort that out because actually probably you didn't really do anything wrong. It just, it was the wrong timing or maybe the message wasn't there or you hadn't built your leads up correctly or whatever it was, you know? And so that's why I think that. That, yes, we need sales. Yes, we need strategy. Yes, we need the right products and services. But we also really, really need the right mindset. And I look at it as well as like, you're already doing really well, right? You've already got a business. You're already doing well. Brilliant. Fantastic. Well done. So you have absolutely shown that you can do this, right? You will. We all have difficulties along the way. It's just a part of it, isn't it? So what we want to look at is, OK, so you want to get to the next level. So actually, it could just be. It could be a minor tweak. It could be what we call in sports performance, an incremental gain. Like, what's a little thing that could really help you right now to move to the next level? What have you been telling yourself that's not really true? What are you doing that's maybe not that helpful that we can just tweak? And it might be you start tweaking and then start unraveling something that might happen. And then we might need to go down the slightly bigger stuff. But even then, it won't feel big because of the way that I do it, the way that we do it. So, yeah, that's kind of how I see it. It's like it's not about like, you know. Breaking yourself down in order to rebuild yourself or any of that stuff that we hear. It's not about standing in front of the mirror and telling yourself you're amazing eight times a day or, you know, like it's not. It's just about, like, becoming conscious of what it is that you're perhaps doing, which maybe isn't that helpful.

 Yeah. Yeah, I quite often talk about the fact that you can't actually change the future. Sorry, you can't change the past. You can't change the past. Cut that bit out. No, you can't change the past at all because, you know, the past is what happened, isn't it? You know, that has happened. You can't change that. But you absolutely can change the future. You can do things differently to enable your future to not be a reflection of something that's happened to you in the past. And I think that's a really important thing to bear in mind, isn't it? That just because something hurt, and I love the thorn analogy, absolutely love that, just because something has hurt doesn't mean that it's going to hurt again next time.

 Yeah, absolutely. And to some degree, I obviously agree with you, we can't change the past, no. But what we can do, and this is the really, really cool part about this, is we can change our brain's associations to the past. So what often has happened to us, something's happened in the past, and then we have taken it on in our brains a certain way, based on everything that's going on around us and what we were at emotionally in that point in time and all sorts of things. And often when we're a child, we take it on in a very different way to how we would have as an adult as well. So what we can actually do, though, and some of the techniques that I do, which, again, you don't have to tell us anything. We just do the techniques, really simple, is that we can change your brain's perception. Because remember, a memory isn't reality, but it just feels like it, a memory is a recollection of something, and then you recall the recollection, and then you recall the recollection, and it changes over time as well, and it often gets blown out of proportion and all sorts of things. And most of the time, nine times out of 10, what actually happened in the past was nothing to do with you, it was just the way you took something on or the way you interpreted it. And when we start to play with that, genuinely, that's how we rewire the brain. It sounds funny. It sounds scary, but it's really not. It's cool. Yeah. We rewire the brain so that it isn't bothered by that past thing anymore. So, no, we can't change the past, but we can change all the stuff that your brain has done around that event that was then perhaps holding you back from taking that future step. And that's where I love to work. It's great fun. And also, the coolest part is you don't have to sit with me in a therapy room to do it. It can be done online, it can be done. I mean, I've got video programs for horse riders. We haven't yet set them up for bold business, but I'm sure we will do. But where you watch a video and it rewires your brain for you and off you go. I mean, it really is honestly that easy. Just sit there having a nice time and it does its thing.

 It's that cool. The magic has worked. The magic has absolutely worked. And I think an interesting thing that I've picked out from there is that two people can have the exact same experience, be in the same place, the same time. But their memories of that are completely different, aren't they? Because we focus on the things that we perhaps want to focus and we want to remember. So, yeah, that sort of reinforces that, doesn't it? How two people can experience something completely different and have different memories of it. I think my question to you would be, so somebody comes to work with you and you fix their mindset. The magic is done. You've fixed their mindset. Are they permanently fixed?

That's such a good question. So I hate this word fix. And I actually hate the word mindset as well, because the implication of mindset is exactly that, that it is a fixed thing. And it's not. We have this amazing thing in our brain called neuroplasticity, which means it can completely rewire itself. It's amazing. It's really clever. And it also sheds, sheds stuff as well. So the coolest part is I've got a toddler at the moment. She's two. And she's about to go through her first shedding phase in her brain, which is anything that hasn't needed to be used will now be got rid of. I mean, it's amazing. So, no. So I hate the word fix because none of us are broken for a start. So it's not about fixing people. What we can do is we can optimize. We can, you know, change things that help them. We can tweak and adjust. They may feel like huge things, right? They may be absolutely life changing. They may mean that we totally stop doing the thing we really do. Like you said, in your business, totally stop doing it anymore because you don't want to just go and do something else because actually we're not fearful anymore. We're not worried about it. But we do still need to keep doing this stuff and practicing it because it has to come habitual. It has to become the way that we are. Now, it does eventually become the way. But again, then that mindset may help us or hinder us in the future. So we're always going through different things. And this is where we always need constant adjustment and tweaking. And just the same as we need a business coach to keep us on track, keep us accountable, keep us aligned is exactly the same with mindset. Now, my business model is that I don't want people relying on me. That's very important from my perspective. This isn't about rescuing people. This is about supporting them to find their own resources, their own way of doing things. But, of course, every now and again, you need a little back. Back in the right place. Back in the right direction or someone going, oh, you just said that, didn't you? Did you notice? Or, oh, hello, what's that one creeping back in? Or, you know, any of that stuff. So it's like with anything where you need a coach or accountability in that respect, it's like just knock them in the nicest way. Back on track again. Just spot it before they go way off on a tangent and it becomes a spiral of a problem. So, you know, none of us are ever fixed. I still have issues. I still need mindset. Coaching myself. One of my favorite phrases is you can't see the label from inside the bottle like it takes someone else. To have that perspective. You've got blind spots. It takes someone else to see this stuff or hear. You know, one of the main things I'm doing when I'm working with a client is listening to their words. And not necessarily in the nicest way what they're saying. But, you know, what is the words they're using? What is the stuff that's a pattern? What's going on for them? Like spotting that kind of thing and just kind of making them aware of it to begin with. And then we might go, OK, we've spotted something. Let's go in and work out what we need to to change that or rewire it maybe. But, no, it's not set. No. We're never fixed. Yes, we always need it. But, no, I certainly would never want anyone relying on me. That is not what I'm about. I'm absolutely about empowering people to go off and do it for themselves. And then they might pop back when they've got another challenge or they've spotted something else or, you know, something's come up or they've been knocked back for some reason. Yeah, OK. You know, absolutely. That's totally it. But, no, we never need fixing. We're never fixed. We're never set. It's always changeable. And it's just a case of like with business, isn't it? Flowing with it and just knowing where to get the right support when you need it.

 So, that's it. And I think as we grow, we unpeel that onion, I suppose, don't we? We find something else that comes along and goes, oh, no, you're not going to do that. And, again, you know, that's where mindset kicks in again, isn't it? And you start to, oh, no, this is a bit scary. Not sure I like this. So, I think I'll put myself back in the box. So, yeah, absolutely love that. And that quote, I love that too. Interestingly, that exact quote went out in my email yesterday. So, there you go. It is an amazing, amazing quote. Right. Absolutely loving chatting with you. But we are running out. Out of time. So, as I do with all of my guests at the end of our episode, I ask you to share with our listeners a top tip. Okay.

 So, my top tip is in your business at the moment, if there is something that you think you'd love to do or you see someone else doing it and think, oh, I'd love to be able to do that, just take a moment and ask yourself, what is stopping me right now? And you'll probably have a huge long list of excuses. So, just write down that list of excuses, right? Just brain dump it. Okay. Just let your brain be sick all over that bit of paper. Okay. And then look at them and just actually say to yourself, how many of these can I overcome right now? Is there anything I can do? Do I need support with any of these? Do I need the right expert to help me with any of them? Do I have the right knowledge to overcome this? Do I need some mindset help? Because actually, it's just me talking nonsense to myself. You know, because if someone else could do it, we know we can. So, it's possible. Right. A bit like the one minute mark. It's possible to do as soon as someone's done it. So, the only reason you're not doing it is because for some reason, you don't think it's possible. But we can change that. So, absolutely. That's what you need to do. Just become aware of this stuff. That's my top tip.

 Love that. Absolutely love that. So, finally, if our listeners want to come and learn more about you, where's the best place for them to connect?

 So, we've literally only just set up right now. So, you can connect with me, which is Jenny Winterleach on Facebook is my place that I do or Jenny Winterleach on Instagram. Boldbusiness.com. Boldbusiness Mindset is currently set up on Facebook as a page, but we're posting stuff out there, but we're still, you know, gaining our followers and things. We have got a quiz that you can do if you want to find out what your persona is. So, we've got one of four personas and it'll tell you what it is that perhaps you're doing that's getting in your own way. So, we can get that to you. But yeah, Instagram and Facebook at the moment are absolutely the first places to find me. And just drop me a DM.

 Fabulous. And we will share all of your links in the show notes. Anyway, so thank you, Jenny, for joining me. It's been amazing chatting with you. And thank you, everybody else for listening. I will see you next time.

You have been listening to Dream Business Dream Life with Emma Hine. If you want to know more about how I can help you to build your dream business and your dream life, then visit my website emmehine.co.uk. Until next time remember you really can have it all!